Sunday, March 30, 2008
comments:
On amarilis' blog in response to "Song 'No Surprises' Analysis": "i think this is a really great connection and you word it all really well. i really liekd the line "in our society, we continually consume lies from those in power and perform in acts that further demoralize us..". I think you could deffinitely use this song as a connection to the Derrick Jensen book, because Jensen delves into the whole idea of our daily lives and how they demoralize us and cause us to live in a destructive society."
revelations 4th draft.
Bonnie Black
Revelation Trope
One often complains that we lack anything original when it comes to movies or books. We find ourselves watching or reading the same story lines over and over again. The same cliches appear in almost everything these days. Similarly, we are bombarded by tropes. A trope is an element in a story that tends to get repeated. A very common trope is that of the revelation trope. Elements of a revelation trope are the following; ignorant masses, an unnacceptable situation, a prophet or revealer trying to share a message that presents things in a new way and that offers a new redeemed world, opposition to the messenger, drama occurs. A trope can be seen within movies, plays, and literature.
From childhood, we have been presented with the revelation trope, as it was incorporated in some of the most basic childhood fables. In The Emporers New Clothes, by Hans Christian Anderson, two scoundrels choose to play a trick on the vain Emporer. They fool him into believing that they are tailors, who have developed this way of making clothes that are invisible to those who are too stupid and incompetent to appreciate it. When the scoundrels have finished “making” this piece for the Emporer, the Emporer is too afriad of being seen as stupid and incompetent, that he pretends to see a garment, that in actuality is not there. Because everyone else within the kingdom also fear being seen as stupid, they too pretend to see something that is not there. The people of the town had heard of the beautiful fabric and the amazing suit that was being made for the Emporer and they were anxious to see it. The Emporer agreed to show them, even though when he looked in the mirror, he only saw himself naked, not a beautiful suit. As the Emporer paraded down the main square, the people all pretended to see something, in fear of letting their Emporer know they were too stupid. However, a child came forward and said “The Emporer is naked,” and soon everyone else in the crowd realized it was true. The Emporer knew they were right, but refused to admit to it, so he simply stood there on his carriage continuing on with the parade.
The scoundrels in this story are the messengers, as they are trying to prove how vain the Emporer truly is. The unstable situation is the fact that the people are so ignorant and that the Emporer is so concerned with his clothes and how he looks. The ignorant masses are so afraid of being seen as something, that they try to ignore the truth, thus there is opposition to the message. In the end, the drama that occurs is the uproar of the crowd, and the Emporer as he continues to stand there naked before them.
In the movie Foxfire, the character Legs, arrives at the lead character, Maddy’s school. When the girls are in the bathroom and it comes out that their science teacher has been sexually abusing some of them, Legs encourages the girls to stand up together. In this revelation, Legs is playing the role of the messenger/revealer. The unacceptable situation is the fact that the teacher has been taking advantage of the girls. The opposition during this revelation came from the cheerleaders at the school who were also in the bathroom, in on the conversation. They doubted the girls’ stories, and refused to believe that the teacher was doing such things. The drama that then occured was the way the girls chose to solve the situation; by catching the teacher during the act and beating him up.
The movie The Matrix is also a prime example of the revelation trope. In the matrix, Morpheus makes Neo realize that the world as he knows it, is not reality and just a lie. It is simply fragments of a computer program. Morpheus brings Neo into what is the real world, believing that Neo is “the one”. However, through to course of trying to show Neo the real world, the machines which are running this real world attempt to stop him. In this, Morpheus can be seen as the prophet. The message which he is attempting to reveal is that the world as Neo knows it is fake. The ignorant masses is almost the entirety of the human race, as they are simply living in a computer program with no idea that what they are living is not reality. The opposition occurs when the machines begin to fight against Neo.
Revelations occur all throughout The Gospel of Mark. The most obvious being that of when Jesus learns that he is the son of God. “10 Just as Jesus was coming up out of the water, he saw heaven being torn open and the Spirit descending on him like a dove. 11 And a voice came from heaven: ‘You are my son, whom I love; with you I am well pleased.’” Such a dramatic revelation is a typical trope. The heavens tear open and deliver a message. Through Jesus’ journey of delivering the message of God, he comes across the obstacle of the ignorant masses, who often doubt his ability to heal and help others.
As Jesus is dealing with his own new found power, the people he comes in contact with also experiance similar revelations, as they now realize they are in the presence of God’s literal Son. Many revelations such as this occur during the course of the story. When Jesus has now just forgiven all the signs of a paralyzed man, thinkers who have watched the miracle doubt the possibility of Jesus being powerful enough to do this.
"6 Now some teachers of the law were sitting there, thinking to themselves, 7 'Why does this fellow talk like that? He's blaspheming! Who can forgive sins but God alone?'
8 Immediately Jesus knew in his spirit that this was what they were thinking in their hearts, and he said to them, 'Why are you thinkingthese things? 9 Which is easier: to say to this paralyzed man, 'Your sins are forgiven,' or to say, 'Get up, take you mat and walk'? 10 But I want you to know that the Son of Man has authority on earth to forgive sins.' So he said to the man, 11 'I tell you, get up, take your mat, and go home.' 12 He got up, took his mat and walked out in full view of them all. This amazed everyone and they praised God, saying 'We have never seen anything like this!' "
During this, the people have witnessed a true miracle by Jesus. This is a small revelation, had by those who doubted Jesus' powers and ability, however they came to their revelation as they saw Jesus heal the paralyzed man, as he got up and walked home.
The Gospel of Mark is very much an example of the revelation trope, and like many prophets within a revelation trope, Jesus is killed.
In the play, An Enemy of the People, by Henrik Ibsen, a Doctor discovers bacteria within his towns water supply. Dr. Stockmann is the messenger within this play, as he tries to get the news out about the infected water supply. However, his brother, the Mayor, wants to avoid the news getting out, in fear that in order to fix the problem they must close down the water supply, and risk losing their tourist population. When the Doctor first approaches the people at the paper, they are completely willing to help him develop a strong following from the people of the town and to publish his manuscript in the next issue of the paper. However, when the mayor comes to the paper, he convinces them to publish a piece he has written instead. As more and more people begin to turn on the Doctor, the possibility of him being able to reach the public before the Mayor does, becomes more and more slim.
In 1976, the movie Network displayed much of the revelation trope. It’s about a telivision network that is struggling with ratings, and when the news anchor, Howard Beale, is told he is going to be fired, he has a breakdown, proclaiming on the live evening news that he will be committing suicide on live television during next weeks broadcast. The unstable situation arises from this, as the network realizes that they can develop very high ratings if they use Beale’s outbursts to their advantage. They do not care about his mental health, they are only concerned with their public image and getting higher ratings. Beale’s revelation comes to him one night as he lays in bed and begins to hear a voice. The voice tells Howard that it is his job to tell the people the truth, because he is on telivision and has the ability to reach millions. During the next broadcast, Howard begins the famous speach, in which he tells the people that it is their job to get out of their own litle worlds and acknowledge what is going on in the world. That they are being fooled by the government and the networks, being treated as though their lives have no real value. He tells them to get out of their chairs, open the window, stick their heads out the window and yell “I’m as mad as hell, and I’m not going to take it anymore!”. This is when the ignorant masses have their own revelations; they adhear to Howard’s instructions, and voices yelling those famous words begin to echoe everywhere.
The obstacle within this movie has to deal with the network, UBS, trying to turn Howard into a product. Diana, the woman who takes over the news, turns it into a circus, psychic and all. “T.V. is showbiz, and even the news needs some showmanship” Diana proclaims. Howard continues delivering his messages to the people, telling them that television is not the truth and that in order to find the truth, they must turn to themselves. As the network continues to keep a hold on their new found fame, they neglect to notice Howard falling deeper and deeper into an obvious mental illness. During one show, Howard begins to discuss the illegal ties the owners of UBS, CCA, have with Saudi Arabia. After this, the network decides to take advantage of Howards depleting mental health, and begin convincing him to change the message of the show. However, in the end, the network decides they no longer want to deal with Howard, and hire someone to assassinate Howard at the beginning of one of his broadcasts, because they believe it will be helpful for the ratings of the spin-off shows they plan to create.
The messager within this movie was clearly Howard, and many others within the movie have their own personal revelations thanks to the commotion that surrounds Howards new found fame. And like many other prophets, Howard can be viewed as mentally ill, and ends up killed.
In the movie Foxfire, the character Legs reveals the abuse some students are experiancing from the teacher, and she unveils the message that the women involved must join together and fight back. In Enemy of the people, the Doctor discovers bacteria in the baths and when he reveals it, those powerful, such as the mayor and those working at the newspaper, work to silence him for economic purposes. The doctor later on tries to speak to the people of the town himself, trying to convince them to help. In both the movie Foxfire and the play Enemy of The People, the revealer wants to help people join together and rise up against those in power. However, Legs is the only one that succeeds, while the Doctor becomes rejected by the society. Through these revelations, it becomes clear that people are more willing to accept a message or revelation that will empower them along with others, rather than one that requires them to change the comfortable lavvish life they are used to. Legs offered a message of empowerment and sisterhood, while the Doctor offered a message that required the town to give up their tourist appeal, which meant a loss of money, and money needed in order to save the water. Those that were offered the message of empowerment that would help them rise against those in power, chose to act on the revelation, while those who were offered the message that required a change in their lavish economic lifestyle, resisted the message.
In the Matrix, Morpheus sees Neo as “the one”. Morpheus appears to be the one in power on the ship and when it comes to fighting the agents or the machines. However, once he finds Neo, he almost bows to him as he teaches him, knowing that Neo has the ability to have amazing power. Similarly, in the Book of Mark, John the Baptist is seen as very powerful, for he has the ability to baptize people, which will allow them the forgiveness of their sins. However, John the Baptist then reveals that there will be one more powerful that will come after him. John the Baptist then baptizes Jesus, which almost makes one vview John the Baptist as in a more powerful position then Jesus. During his baptisim is when Jesus recieves his message from God, learning that he is the Son of God. Had John not given Jesus the baptism, he would not have recieved his message. However, John continues to explain how he is almost unworthy of Jesus, saying that “the thongs of whose sandals I am not worthy to stoop down and untie”. Often the prophet, who has the ability to give the message to the disciple, can be seen as more powerful and with a more direct connection with what is considered all powerful, i.e. God or the Oracle. However, once the disciple comes into play, the much more stronger Prophet now acts weaker and praises the Disciple and their power.
Similarly, the Prophet will often be willing to sacrifice themself in order to save the disciple, for they see him as being much more powerful than they are. In the Matrix, Morpheus, who is the prophet and is teaching Neo, the disciple, tells the others to escape while he distracts the Agents by fighting them. He knows he will not be able to save himself, for the Agents are very powerful and they have police officers with them. Despite knowing that he will most likely die, he chooses it is more important to let Neo get away then to save himself. In Star Wars, when Obi-Wan, Luke, Han Solo, Chewbacca, R2-D2 and C3PO are aboard the enemies ship, trying to make their way back to their own ship, Obi-Wan makes it possible for them to return to their ship by beginning a fight. Obi-Wan begins a lightsaber duel between Darth Vader, which many on the ship stop to watch, which allows the rest of them try to get back to their ship. Obi-Wan then allows Darth Vader to kill him as he warns him that he will become “more powerful than you can possibly imagine.” Obi-Wan sacrficed himself in order to help the rest of them make their way back to the ship. However, his sacrifice became much more important than just that. In fact, both sacrifices, by both Morpheus and Obi-Wan, became a much more impacting factor on the life of the disciple.
When Morpheus allowed himself to be captured by the Agents, it inspired Neo to take action. Previously, Neo had been somewhat reluctant to completely partake in the Matrix. However, once they learn that Morpheus is in trouble, and has allowed himself to be captured, Neo becomes more willing to help, and he decides that he is going to return and save Morpheus from the Agents, dispite how dangerous it may be, and how much the others on the ship warn him not to. Just as Neo was inspired to rescue Morpheus, after Obi-Wan had sacrficed himself, we see Luke become more connected with the force. After the others escape and return to the Rebel Alliance, Luke agrees to join the assault team which is working to destroy the Death Star. While Luke is on his way to the center of the Death Star, it’s discovered that Darth Vader has sent out ships to destroy Luke on his way, some crash and some are destroyed. Seconds before the Death Star is about to destroy the Rebel base, Luke hears Obi-Wans voice telling him to “use the force”. Luke then fires the shot that destroys the death star and saves the Rebel base. In both situations, it is not until something bad happens to the prophet that the disciple begins to truly take action and pursue the message they were given in the revelation. It was not until Morpheus was about to be killed, that Neo began to truly fight back in the Matrix. In Star Wars, it was not until Obi-Wan was killed, that Luke truly listened to the force, which is the message Obi-Wan had been trying to send him the entire time. Something negative must happen to the Prophet that will then encourage the disciple to take action and pursure the revelation on their own without the guidance of the prophet (Grandits,Clea, 3/27/08, personal communication).
Revelation Trope
One often complains that we lack anything original when it comes to movies or books. We find ourselves watching or reading the same story lines over and over again. The same cliches appear in almost everything these days. Similarly, we are bombarded by tropes. A trope is an element in a story that tends to get repeated. A very common trope is that of the revelation trope. Elements of a revelation trope are the following; ignorant masses, an unnacceptable situation, a prophet or revealer trying to share a message that presents things in a new way and that offers a new redeemed world, opposition to the messenger, drama occurs. A trope can be seen within movies, plays, and literature.
From childhood, we have been presented with the revelation trope, as it was incorporated in some of the most basic childhood fables. In The Emporers New Clothes, by Hans Christian Anderson, two scoundrels choose to play a trick on the vain Emporer. They fool him into believing that they are tailors, who have developed this way of making clothes that are invisible to those who are too stupid and incompetent to appreciate it. When the scoundrels have finished “making” this piece for the Emporer, the Emporer is too afriad of being seen as stupid and incompetent, that he pretends to see a garment, that in actuality is not there. Because everyone else within the kingdom also fear being seen as stupid, they too pretend to see something that is not there. The people of the town had heard of the beautiful fabric and the amazing suit that was being made for the Emporer and they were anxious to see it. The Emporer agreed to show them, even though when he looked in the mirror, he only saw himself naked, not a beautiful suit. As the Emporer paraded down the main square, the people all pretended to see something, in fear of letting their Emporer know they were too stupid. However, a child came forward and said “The Emporer is naked,” and soon everyone else in the crowd realized it was true. The Emporer knew they were right, but refused to admit to it, so he simply stood there on his carriage continuing on with the parade.
The scoundrels in this story are the messengers, as they are trying to prove how vain the Emporer truly is. The unstable situation is the fact that the people are so ignorant and that the Emporer is so concerned with his clothes and how he looks. The ignorant masses are so afraid of being seen as something, that they try to ignore the truth, thus there is opposition to the message. In the end, the drama that occurs is the uproar of the crowd, and the Emporer as he continues to stand there naked before them.
In the movie Foxfire, the character Legs, arrives at the lead character, Maddy’s school. When the girls are in the bathroom and it comes out that their science teacher has been sexually abusing some of them, Legs encourages the girls to stand up together. In this revelation, Legs is playing the role of the messenger/revealer. The unacceptable situation is the fact that the teacher has been taking advantage of the girls. The opposition during this revelation came from the cheerleaders at the school who were also in the bathroom, in on the conversation. They doubted the girls’ stories, and refused to believe that the teacher was doing such things. The drama that then occured was the way the girls chose to solve the situation; by catching the teacher during the act and beating him up.
The movie The Matrix is also a prime example of the revelation trope. In the matrix, Morpheus makes Neo realize that the world as he knows it, is not reality and just a lie. It is simply fragments of a computer program. Morpheus brings Neo into what is the real world, believing that Neo is “the one”. However, through to course of trying to show Neo the real world, the machines which are running this real world attempt to stop him. In this, Morpheus can be seen as the prophet. The message which he is attempting to reveal is that the world as Neo knows it is fake. The ignorant masses is almost the entirety of the human race, as they are simply living in a computer program with no idea that what they are living is not reality. The opposition occurs when the machines begin to fight against Neo.
Revelations occur all throughout The Gospel of Mark. The most obvious being that of when Jesus learns that he is the son of God. “10 Just as Jesus was coming up out of the water, he saw heaven being torn open and the Spirit descending on him like a dove. 11 And a voice came from heaven: ‘You are my son, whom I love; with you I am well pleased.’” Such a dramatic revelation is a typical trope. The heavens tear open and deliver a message. Through Jesus’ journey of delivering the message of God, he comes across the obstacle of the ignorant masses, who often doubt his ability to heal and help others.
As Jesus is dealing with his own new found power, the people he comes in contact with also experiance similar revelations, as they now realize they are in the presence of God’s literal Son. Many revelations such as this occur during the course of the story. When Jesus has now just forgiven all the signs of a paralyzed man, thinkers who have watched the miracle doubt the possibility of Jesus being powerful enough to do this.
"6 Now some teachers of the law were sitting there, thinking to themselves, 7 'Why does this fellow talk like that? He's blaspheming! Who can forgive sins but God alone?'
8 Immediately Jesus knew in his spirit that this was what they were thinking in their hearts, and he said to them, 'Why are you thinkingthese things? 9 Which is easier: to say to this paralyzed man, 'Your sins are forgiven,' or to say, 'Get up, take you mat and walk'? 10 But I want you to know that the Son of Man has authority on earth to forgive sins.' So he said to the man, 11 'I tell you, get up, take your mat, and go home.' 12 He got up, took his mat and walked out in full view of them all. This amazed everyone and they praised God, saying 'We have never seen anything like this!' "
During this, the people have witnessed a true miracle by Jesus. This is a small revelation, had by those who doubted Jesus' powers and ability, however they came to their revelation as they saw Jesus heal the paralyzed man, as he got up and walked home.
The Gospel of Mark is very much an example of the revelation trope, and like many prophets within a revelation trope, Jesus is killed.
In the play, An Enemy of the People, by Henrik Ibsen, a Doctor discovers bacteria within his towns water supply. Dr. Stockmann is the messenger within this play, as he tries to get the news out about the infected water supply. However, his brother, the Mayor, wants to avoid the news getting out, in fear that in order to fix the problem they must close down the water supply, and risk losing their tourist population. When the Doctor first approaches the people at the paper, they are completely willing to help him develop a strong following from the people of the town and to publish his manuscript in the next issue of the paper. However, when the mayor comes to the paper, he convinces them to publish a piece he has written instead. As more and more people begin to turn on the Doctor, the possibility of him being able to reach the public before the Mayor does, becomes more and more slim.
In 1976, the movie Network displayed much of the revelation trope. It’s about a telivision network that is struggling with ratings, and when the news anchor, Howard Beale, is told he is going to be fired, he has a breakdown, proclaiming on the live evening news that he will be committing suicide on live television during next weeks broadcast. The unstable situation arises from this, as the network realizes that they can develop very high ratings if they use Beale’s outbursts to their advantage. They do not care about his mental health, they are only concerned with their public image and getting higher ratings. Beale’s revelation comes to him one night as he lays in bed and begins to hear a voice. The voice tells Howard that it is his job to tell the people the truth, because he is on telivision and has the ability to reach millions. During the next broadcast, Howard begins the famous speach, in which he tells the people that it is their job to get out of their own litle worlds and acknowledge what is going on in the world. That they are being fooled by the government and the networks, being treated as though their lives have no real value. He tells them to get out of their chairs, open the window, stick their heads out the window and yell “I’m as mad as hell, and I’m not going to take it anymore!”. This is when the ignorant masses have their own revelations; they adhear to Howard’s instructions, and voices yelling those famous words begin to echoe everywhere.
The obstacle within this movie has to deal with the network, UBS, trying to turn Howard into a product. Diana, the woman who takes over the news, turns it into a circus, psychic and all. “T.V. is showbiz, and even the news needs some showmanship” Diana proclaims. Howard continues delivering his messages to the people, telling them that television is not the truth and that in order to find the truth, they must turn to themselves. As the network continues to keep a hold on their new found fame, they neglect to notice Howard falling deeper and deeper into an obvious mental illness. During one show, Howard begins to discuss the illegal ties the owners of UBS, CCA, have with Saudi Arabia. After this, the network decides to take advantage of Howards depleting mental health, and begin convincing him to change the message of the show. However, in the end, the network decides they no longer want to deal with Howard, and hire someone to assassinate Howard at the beginning of one of his broadcasts, because they believe it will be helpful for the ratings of the spin-off shows they plan to create.
The messager within this movie was clearly Howard, and many others within the movie have their own personal revelations thanks to the commotion that surrounds Howards new found fame. And like many other prophets, Howard can be viewed as mentally ill, and ends up killed.
In the movie Foxfire, the character Legs reveals the abuse some students are experiancing from the teacher, and she unveils the message that the women involved must join together and fight back. In Enemy of the people, the Doctor discovers bacteria in the baths and when he reveals it, those powerful, such as the mayor and those working at the newspaper, work to silence him for economic purposes. The doctor later on tries to speak to the people of the town himself, trying to convince them to help. In both the movie Foxfire and the play Enemy of The People, the revealer wants to help people join together and rise up against those in power. However, Legs is the only one that succeeds, while the Doctor becomes rejected by the society. Through these revelations, it becomes clear that people are more willing to accept a message or revelation that will empower them along with others, rather than one that requires them to change the comfortable lavvish life they are used to. Legs offered a message of empowerment and sisterhood, while the Doctor offered a message that required the town to give up their tourist appeal, which meant a loss of money, and money needed in order to save the water. Those that were offered the message of empowerment that would help them rise against those in power, chose to act on the revelation, while those who were offered the message that required a change in their lavish economic lifestyle, resisted the message.
In the Matrix, Morpheus sees Neo as “the one”. Morpheus appears to be the one in power on the ship and when it comes to fighting the agents or the machines. However, once he finds Neo, he almost bows to him as he teaches him, knowing that Neo has the ability to have amazing power. Similarly, in the Book of Mark, John the Baptist is seen as very powerful, for he has the ability to baptize people, which will allow them the forgiveness of their sins. However, John the Baptist then reveals that there will be one more powerful that will come after him. John the Baptist then baptizes Jesus, which almost makes one vview John the Baptist as in a more powerful position then Jesus. During his baptisim is when Jesus recieves his message from God, learning that he is the Son of God. Had John not given Jesus the baptism, he would not have recieved his message. However, John continues to explain how he is almost unworthy of Jesus, saying that “the thongs of whose sandals I am not worthy to stoop down and untie”. Often the prophet, who has the ability to give the message to the disciple, can be seen as more powerful and with a more direct connection with what is considered all powerful, i.e. God or the Oracle. However, once the disciple comes into play, the much more stronger Prophet now acts weaker and praises the Disciple and their power.
Similarly, the Prophet will often be willing to sacrifice themself in order to save the disciple, for they see him as being much more powerful than they are. In the Matrix, Morpheus, who is the prophet and is teaching Neo, the disciple, tells the others to escape while he distracts the Agents by fighting them. He knows he will not be able to save himself, for the Agents are very powerful and they have police officers with them. Despite knowing that he will most likely die, he chooses it is more important to let Neo get away then to save himself. In Star Wars, when Obi-Wan, Luke, Han Solo, Chewbacca, R2-D2 and C3PO are aboard the enemies ship, trying to make their way back to their own ship, Obi-Wan makes it possible for them to return to their ship by beginning a fight. Obi-Wan begins a lightsaber duel between Darth Vader, which many on the ship stop to watch, which allows the rest of them try to get back to their ship. Obi-Wan then allows Darth Vader to kill him as he warns him that he will become “more powerful than you can possibly imagine.” Obi-Wan sacrficed himself in order to help the rest of them make their way back to the ship. However, his sacrifice became much more important than just that. In fact, both sacrifices, by both Morpheus and Obi-Wan, became a much more impacting factor on the life of the disciple.
When Morpheus allowed himself to be captured by the Agents, it inspired Neo to take action. Previously, Neo had been somewhat reluctant to completely partake in the Matrix. However, once they learn that Morpheus is in trouble, and has allowed himself to be captured, Neo becomes more willing to help, and he decides that he is going to return and save Morpheus from the Agents, dispite how dangerous it may be, and how much the others on the ship warn him not to. Just as Neo was inspired to rescue Morpheus, after Obi-Wan had sacrficed himself, we see Luke become more connected with the force. After the others escape and return to the Rebel Alliance, Luke agrees to join the assault team which is working to destroy the Death Star. While Luke is on his way to the center of the Death Star, it’s discovered that Darth Vader has sent out ships to destroy Luke on his way, some crash and some are destroyed. Seconds before the Death Star is about to destroy the Rebel base, Luke hears Obi-Wans voice telling him to “use the force”. Luke then fires the shot that destroys the death star and saves the Rebel base. In both situations, it is not until something bad happens to the prophet that the disciple begins to truly take action and pursue the message they were given in the revelation. It was not until Morpheus was about to be killed, that Neo began to truly fight back in the Matrix. In Star Wars, it was not until Obi-Wan was killed, that Luke truly listened to the force, which is the message Obi-Wan had been trying to send him the entire time. Something negative must happen to the Prophet that will then encourage the disciple to take action and pursure the revelation on their own without the guidance of the prophet (Grandits,Clea, 3/27/08, personal communication).
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